{"id":13865,"date":"2011-02-22T09:31:41","date_gmt":"2011-02-22T09:31:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/?p=13865"},"modified":"2026-05-09T09:32:47","modified_gmt":"2026-05-09T08:32:47","slug":"meizon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/meizon\/","title":{"rendered":"Meizon"},"content":{"rendered":"

M<\/strong>eizon<\/strong> is given the sole meaning of \u00a0\u2018greater\u2019\u00a0 in the respected Greek Lexicon of Liddell & Scott<\/em>. Furthermore, in Bury\u2019s translation of sections 20e -26a of Timaeus,<\/em> there are\u00a0eleven instances of Plato using megas<\/em> (great) meizon <\/em>(greater) or megistos <\/em>(greatest). In all cases, great<\/em> or greatest<\/em> is employed except just one, 24e, which uses the comparative meizon, <\/em>which Bury<\/a> translated as \u2018larger\u2019<\/em>! J.Warren Wells<\/a> concluded that Bury\u2019s translation in this single instance is inconsistent with his other treatments of the word and it does not fit comfortably with the context[<\/sup>787<\/sup><\/a>.85]<\/sup>. This inconsistency is difficult to accept, so although meizon <\/em>can have a secondary meaning of \u2018larger\u2019 it is quite reasonable to assume that the primary meaning of \u2018greater\u2019 was intended.\u00a0 <\/em><\/p>\n

J\u00fcrgen Spanuth<\/a> addressed this problem in Atlantis-The Mystery Unravelled<\/em> [017<\/a>.109]<\/sup> noting that “In other parts of the Atlantis report misunderstandings easily arose. Plato asserts that Atlantis was ‘larger’, ‘more extensive’ (meizon), than Libya and Asia Minor. The Greek word ‘meizon’ can mean both ‘larger in size’ and ‘more powerful.’ As the size of the Atlantean kingdom is given between two hundred and three hundred miles, whereas Asia Minor is considerably bigger, in this context the word ‘meizon’ should be translated not by ‘larger in size’ but by ‘more powerful’, which corresponds much better to the actual facts.”<\/p>\n

In 2006, on a now-defunct website of his, Wells noted that “<\/em>Greater can mean larger, but this meaning is by no means the only possible meaning here; his overall usage of the word may show he meant greater in some other way.”<\/em><\/p>\n

It is also worth considering that Alexander the Great, (Al\u00e9xandros ho M\u00e9gas<\/em>) was so-called, not because of his physical size, apparently, he was short of stature, but because he was a powerful <\/em><\/strong>leader.\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

The word has entered Atlantis debates in relation to its use in Timaeus 24e<\/em> \u2019, where Plato describes Atlantis as \u2018greater\u2019 than Libya<\/a> and Asia<\/a> together and until recently has been most frequently interpreted to mean greater ‘in size’, an idea that I previously endorsed. However, some researchers have suggested that he intended to mean greater ‘in power\u2019.<\/p>\n

Other\u00a0commentators do not seem to be fully aware that \u2018Libya\u2019 and \u2018Asia\u2019 had completely different meanings at the time of Plato. \u2018Libya\u2019 referred to part or all\u00a0of North Africa, west of Egypt, while \u2018Asia\u2019 was sometimes applied to Lydia<\/a>, a small kingdom in what is today Turkey. Incidentally, Plato’s \u00a0statement also demonstrates that Atlantis could not have existed in either of these territories, as \u2018a part cannot be greater than the whole.\u2019<\/p>\n

A more radical, but less credible,\u00a0interpretation of Plato\u2019s use of ‘meizon’ came from the historian P.B.S. Andrews<\/a>, who suggested that the quotation has been the result of a misreading of Solon<\/a>\u2019s notes. He maintained that the text should be read as \u2019midway<\/em> between Libya and Asia\u2019<\/em> since in the original Greek there is only a difference of one letter between the words for midway<\/em> (meson) and larger than <\/em>(meizon). <\/em>This suggestion was supported by the classical scholar J.V. Luce<\/a> and more recently, on Marilyn Luongo<\/a>‘s website(a)<\/sup>, which is now closed.<\/p>\n

Luongo attempted to link Mesopotamia<\/a> with Atlantis, beginning with locating the ‘<\/a>Pillars of Heracles<\/a>‘<\/a> at the Strait of Hormuz<\/a> and then using the highly controversial interpretation of ‘meizon<\/a>‘ meaning ‘between’ rather than ‘greater’ she proceeded to argue that Mesopotamia is ‘between’ Asia and Libya and therefore is the home of Atlantis! She cited a paper by Andreea Haktanir to justify this interpretation of meizon(a)<\/sup>.<\/p>\n

This interpretation is quite interesting, particularly if the Lydian explanation of \u2018Asia\u2019 mentioned above is correct. Viewed from either Athens <\/a>or Egypt we find that Crete<\/a> is located \u2018midway\u2019 between Lydia and Libya.<\/p>\n

Jacques R. Pauwels<\/a> also supported Andrews’ controversial interpretation of Plato’s text (Tim.24d-e) in his 2010 book Beneath the Dust of Time<\/em> [1656<\/a>]<\/sup>. Therefore, he believes that the text should have described Atlantis as being between<\/em><\/strong> Libya and Asia, rather than greater than Libya and Asia combined, arguably pointing to the Minoan Hypothesis<\/a>.<\/p>\n

As there are hundreds of islands ‘between’ Libya and Asia in the Aegean, this interpretation is very imprecise and useless as a geographical pointer.<\/p>\n

In 2021, Diego Ratti<\/a>, proposed in his new book Atletenu <\/em>[1821<\/a>]<\/sup>, an Egyptian location for Atlantis, centred on the Hyksos capital, Avaris<\/a>. In that context, he found it expedient to interpret ‘meizon’ in Tim. 24e & Crit.108e as meaning between<\/em> <\/strong>Libya and Asia, which Avaris clearly is. I pressed Ratti on this interpretation and, after further study, he responded with a more detailed explanation for his conclusion(d)<\/sup>. This is best read in conjunction with the book.<\/p>\n

Some years ago, the late R. Cedric Leonard<\/a> offered the following contribution to the meizon debate:<\/p>\n

In Plato’s time (4th century B.C.) he would have written in large (all-capitals), continuous (no spaces between words), Athenian characters. The old Greek word meson would look like MESON <\/em> in the Athenian script of Plato’s time. But mezon would look like <\/em> MEION – the ancient Z closely resembled our modern capital letter I – the difference between the S and Z in the large Athenian script is obvious. (The Greek Z resembling our Roman Z is modern and does not apply to the older Attic scripts.) <\/em><\/p>\n

But even in the later minuscule script the s and z in no wise resemble each other. A minuscule z (zeta) looks like ? while a medial s (sigma) looks like ? (absolutely nothing alike). The final backbreaker is that Plato included the same comparison in his Critias (108), in which his copyists would have to have made an identical mistake in that work as well. The odds are against the same identical mistake occurring in two separate works.<\/em>(e)\u00a0<\/sup> (see link for actual characters)<\/p>\n

In relation to all this, Felice Vinci <\/a>has explained that ancient mariners measured territory by the length of its coastal perimeter, a method that was in use up to the time of Columbus. This would imply that the island of Atlantis was relatively modest in extent \u2013 I would speculate somewhere between the size of Cyprus <\/a>and Sardinia<\/a>. An area of such an extent has never<\/strong><\/em> been known to have been destroyed by an earthquake.<\/p>\n

Until the 21st<\/sup> century, it was thought by many that meizon<\/em> must have referred to the physical size of Atlantis<\/a>\u00a0rather than its military power. However, having read a paper[750<\/a>.173]<\/sup> delivered by Thorwald C. Franke<\/a> at the 2008<\/a> Atlantis Conference<\/a>,<\/b> I was persuaded otherwise.\u00a0 His explanation is that \u201cfor Egyptians, the world of their \u2018traditional\u2019 enemies was divided in two: To the west, there were the Libyans, to the east there were the Asians. If an Egyptian scribe wanted to say, that an enemy was more dangerous than the \u2018usual\u2019 enemies, which was the case with the Sea Peoples\u2019 <\/a>invasion, then he would have most probably said, that this enemy was ‘more powerful than Libya and Asia put together’\u201d.<\/em><\/p>\n

This is a far more elegant and credible explanation than any reference to physical size, which forced researchers to seek lost continental-sized land masses and apparently justified the negativity of sceptics. Furthermore, it reinforces the Egyptian origin of the Atlantis story, demolishing any claim that Plato concocted the whole tale. If it had been invented by Plato he would probably have compared Atlantis to enemy territories nearer to home, such as the Persians<\/a>.<\/p>\n

This interpretation of meizon has now been ‘adopted’ by Frank Joseph<\/a> in The Destruction of Atlantis<\/em>[102<\/a>.82]<\/sup>, but without giving any due credit to Franke(b)<\/span><\/sup>. No surprise there.!<\/p>\n

(a)<\/sup> History (archive.org)<\/a>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

(b)<\/sup> https:\/\/lost-origins.com\/atlantis-no-lost-continent\/ (offline Jan. 2018) See: http:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20210625013615\/https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/archive-2349\/<\/a><\/p>\n

(c)<\/sup> https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20070212101539\/https:\/\/greekatlantis.com\/<\/a><\/p>\n

(d) <\/sup>More on Atlantis between Asia and Libya (archive.org)<\/a>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

(e)<\/sup> https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20170113130726\/http:\/\/www.atlantisquest.com\/Plato.html<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Meizon is given the sole meaning of \u00a0\u2018greater\u2019\u00a0 in the respected Greek Lexicon of Liddell & Scott. Furthermore, in Bury\u2019s translation of sections 20e -26a of Timaeus, there are\u00a0eleven instances of Plato using megas (great) meizon (greater) or megistos (greatest). In all cases, great or greatest is employed except just one, 24e, which uses the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[1192,3337,2094,305,2259,4248,2714,63,161,1576,105,533,2794,285,1116,514,6012,232,184,4462,2019,4461,2016,463,157,1923,2305,1023,132,201,2510,100,60,146,1987,692],"class_list":["post-13865","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-2008-atlantis-conference","tag-alexander-the-great","tag-asia","tag-athens","tag-atlantis","tag-avaris","tag-christopher-colombus","tag-crete","tag-cyprus","tag-diego-ratti","tag-egypt","tag-felice-vinci","tag-hieronymus-muller","tag-hyksos","tag-j-warren-wells","tag-j-v-luce","tag-jacques-r-pauwels","tag-jurgen-spanuth","tag-libya","tag-liddell-scott","tag-lydia","tag-marilyn-luongo","tag-meizon","tag-mesopotamia","tag-minoan-hypothesis","tag-p-b-s-andrews","tag-persians","tag-pillars-of-herakles","tag-plato","tag-r-cedric-leonard","tag-r-g-bury","tag-sardinia","tag-sea-peoples","tag-solon","tag-strait-of-hormuz","tag-thorwald-c-franke"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13865","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13865"}],"version-history":[{"count":38,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13865\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":67465,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13865\/revisions\/67465"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13865"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13865"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13865"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}