{"id":1557,"date":"2010-05-24T08:48:46","date_gmt":"2010-05-24T08:48:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/size-of-atlantis\/"},"modified":"2025-07-30T18:21:07","modified_gmt":"2025-07-30T17:21:07","slug":"size-of-atlantis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/size-of-atlantis\/","title":{"rendered":"Size of Atlantis"},"content":{"rendered":"

The<\/strong> Size of Atlantis <\/strong>has been the subject of controversy for many years.\u00a0 Debate has centred on the comparative of the Greek adjective Meizon <\/em>used in Timaeus 24e where it was generally translated as \u2018larger\u2019 suggesting that Atlantis was larger than Libya and Asia combined.<\/p>\n

The meaning of \u2018Asia\u2019 at different times in the distant past quite clearly had a variety of connotations. Edward Gibbon, who wrote a monumental work on the Roman Empire, stated that when the ancient Greek and Latin writers referred to \u2019Asia\u2019 they meant Turkey. Another historian, Michael Grant, is of the opinion that \u2018Asia\u2019 could have been applied to the ancient kingdom of Lydia, which only occupied a small region of Eastern Turkey. Similarly, \u2018Libya\u2019 was sometimes applied to a relatively small narrow strip of coastal land to the west of the Nile Delta and more often to the entire Mediterranean coast of Africa except Egypt.<\/p>\n

Perhaps the most interesting contribution to this debate has been from Felice Vinci<\/a> who recently wrote in his book, The Baltic Origins of Homer\u2019s Epic Tales<\/em>[019<\/a>]<\/sup>, that ancient seafarers measured territory by its coastal perimeter rather than by its area, as we do today. He refers to this coastal measurement method being still in use by Christopher Columbus. Acceptance of this contention would require a total review of the \u2018Atlantis greater in size than Asia and Libya together\u2019 controversy. In this regard is worth noting that Herodotus (Bk IV.45) refers to Europe being in<\/em><\/strong> length<\/em><\/strong> \u201cequal to Asia and Libya combined\u201d \u2013 eerily like Plato\u2019s phrase, but endorsing Vinci\u2019s contention. In a similar vein, Strabo (Bk Chap 4.1) recounts how Pytheas reported that the coast-line of Britain was more than forty thousand stadia (4,590 miles).<\/p>\n

The application of Vinci\u2019s coastal measurement to the combination of Asia and Libya could have suggested a relatively modest land area somewhere between that of Cyprus and Sardinia.<\/p>\n

Irrespective of the size of Atlantis, if it was greater in any sense, it cannot have been located in either Libya or Asia,\u00a0because according to the old mathematical axiom \u2018a part cannot be greater than the whole\u2019.<\/p>\n

However, many researchers felt the need to seek a larger landmass in view of Plato\u2019s description of the plain of Atlantis having dimensions of 2,000 x 3,000 stades (230 x 345 miles) which combined with sheltering mountains to the north implies quite an extensive total area for the island and would be far greater than an earthquake could destroy.<\/p>\n

A more radical explanation for Plato\u2019s description comes from the historian P.B.S. Andrews<\/a>, who has suggested that the quotation has been the result of a misreading of Solon\u2019s notes. He maintains that the text should be read as \u2019midway<\/em> between Libya and Asia\u2019 since in the original Greek there is only a difference on one letter between the words for midway<\/em> (meson) and larger than <\/em>(meizon<\/a>). <\/em>This suggestion was supported by the classical scholar J.V. Luce<\/a>. This interpretation is quite interesting, particularly if the Lydian explanation of \u2018Asia\u2019 mentioned above is correct. Viewed from either Athens or Egypt we find that Crete<\/a> is located \u2018midway\u2019 between Lydia and Libya.<\/p>\n

If we return to the Greek meizon <\/em>\u00a0and refer to the respected Greek Lexicon of Liddell & Scott we find meizon<\/em> is given the sole meaning of \u2018greater\u2019. Furthermore, in Bury\u2019s translation of sections 20e -26a of Timaeus there eleven instances of Plato using megas<\/em> (great) meizon <\/em>(greater) or megistos <\/em>(greatest). In all cases great<\/em> or greatest<\/em> is employed except just one, 24e, which uses the comparative meizon, <\/em>which Bury translated as \u2018larger\u2019<\/em>! J.Warren Wells<\/a> concluded that Bury\u2019s translation in this single instance is inconsistent with his other treatments of the word and additionally does not fit comfortably with the context[<\/sup>0783<\/sup><\/a>.85]<\/sup>.<\/p>\n

><\/span><\/strong>Charles D. Pfund<\/a> has suggested that where Atlantis is compared with Libya and Asia combined it is a actually a “reference to the overall population and number of large cities found on Atlantis and in its commonwealth, compared to most of the known world of Solon’s time”<\/em>! [1754<\/a>.145]<<\/span><\/strong><\/sup><\/p>\n

This inconsistency is difficult to accept, so although meizon <\/em>can<\/strong> have a secondary meaning of \u2018larger\u2019 it is quite reasonable to assume that the primary meaning of \u2018greater\u2019 was intended.<\/p>\n

However, in a paper[750<\/a>.173]<\/sup> delivered by Thorwald C. Franke <\/a>to the 2008 Atlantis Conference <\/a>he persuasively argued that \u201cfor Egyptians the world of their \u2018traditional\u2019 enemies divided in two: To the west there were the Libyans, to the east there were the Asians. If an Egyptian scribe wanted to say, that an enemy was more dangerous than the \u2018usual\u2019 opponents, which was the case with the Sea Peoples\u2019 invasion, then he would have most probably said, that this enemy was \u201cmore powerful than Libya and Asia together.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u00a0find this a far more elegant and credible explanation than any reference to physical size which forced researchers to seek lost continental sized land masses. Furthermore it reinforces the Egyptian origin of the Atlantis story, demolishing any claim that Plato concocted the whole tale. If it had been invented by Plato he would probably have compared Atlantis to enemy territories nearer to home, such as the Persians.<\/p>\n

However, although this explanation may seem to remove the need to look for a very large landmass, it still leaves the unrealistic dimensions of 2,000 x 3,000 stades of the cultivated plain of Atlantis. However as I will explain elsewhere all of Plato\u2019s numbers in excess of 1,000, with a single exception, should be treated as approximations and<\/strong> then<\/strong> divided by 10.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The Size of Atlantis has been the subject of controversy for many years.\u00a0 Debate has centred on the comparative of the Greek adjective Meizon used in Timaeus 24e where it was generally translated as \u2018larger\u2019 suggesting that Atlantis was larger than Libya and Asia combined. The meaning of \u2018Asia\u2019 at different times in the distant […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[6594,1585,63,2018,533,266,2794,514,2020,2019,2016,1273,1923,100,393,692,2017],"class_list":["post-1557","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-charles-f-pfund","tag-christopher-columbus","tag-crete","tag-edward-gibbon","tag-felice-vinci","tag-herodotus","tag-hieronymus-muller","tag-j-v-luce","tag-liddellscott","tag-lydia","tag-meizon","tag-michael-grant","tag-p-b-s-andrews","tag-sardinia","tag-strabo","tag-thorwald-c-franke","tag-timaeus-24a"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1557","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1557"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1557\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":64225,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1557\/revisions\/64225"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1557"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1557"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1557"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}