{"id":2194,"date":"2010-05-30T21:39:37","date_gmt":"2010-05-30T21:39:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/plain-of-atlantis\/"},"modified":"2025-07-10T09:40:53","modified_gmt":"2025-07-10T08:40:53","slug":"plain-of-atlantis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/plain-of-atlantis\/","title":{"rendered":"Plain of Atlantis"},"content":{"rendered":"

The <\/strong>P<\/strong>lain <\/strong>of<\/strong> A<\/strong>tlantis <\/strong>is one of the principal features recorded by Plato in great detail. He describes it being \u201c3000 stades in length and at its midpoint 2000 stades in breath from the coast\u201d (Critias<\/em> 118a<\/a>, trans. Lee). The shape of the plain is frequently given as \u2018rectangular\u2019 or \u2018oblong\u2019 and contained an efficient irrigation system that was fed by mountain streams.\u00a0The fertility of the plain gave the inhabitants two crops annually.<\/p>\n

The dimensions<\/a> given by Plato would translate into 370 x 555 km (230 x 345 miles). However, the late Ulf Richter<\/a> has recently proposed(<\/sup>a<\/sup>) <\/sup>that the dimensions originally given to Solon by the priests of Sais<\/a> used the Egyptian \u2018<\/strong>khet<\/a>\u2019 <\/strong>(52.4 meters) as the unit of measurement. Possibly Solon recorded the figures without mentioning the units employed. In Ireland, we\u00a0changed over to the metric system some years ago, but builders still speak and write of using \u20182×4\u2019 lengths of timber without specifying that they are referring to inches<\/em>. Such unqualified notations made at present could be interpreted in the future as 2×4 centimetres.<\/em> This illustrates how reasonable Richter\u2019s suggestion is. The acceptance of it would give us a more credible 105 x 157 km (65 x 97 miles) as the dimensions of this plain. Richter also maintains that the plain was in fact a river delta, which explains the remarkable fertility of the land.<\/p>\n

Rich McQuillen<\/a> has adopted Richter’s suggestion that there was some unspecified translation confusion regarding the use of the Egyptian ‘khet’ or the Greek ‘stade’ by Solon. The revised dimensions led McQuillen to propose territory adjacent to Canopus at the mouth of the Nile as the location of the Plain of Atlantis. Canopus along with nearby Pharos<\/a> and Herakleoin were destroyed by liquefaction resulting from an earthquake. McQuillen’s ideas also coincide with Richter’s additional proposal that Atlantis was situated on a river delta(a)<\/sup>.<\/p>\n

Paul Dunbavin<\/a> offered a number of possible explanations of how the obvious exaggeration of Plato’s numbers occurred(f)<\/sup><\/span>. He suggests that “Regardless of how the original story came to be recorded by the priests of Sais, they too must have translated the dimensions from a native (Atlantian) source. The chain of preservation goes something like this:<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    \n
  1. Recorded in unknown local units of measure <\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  2. Transmitted by traders or colonists to archaic Egypt<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  3. Recorded by the Saite priests when the temple was built<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  4. Transcribed numerous times up to the era of Solon<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  5. converted to Greek units by\/for Solon<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  6. Interpreted by Plato for his narratives<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n
  7. Translated for modern readers by Greek scholars<\/em><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Errors could have been introduced at any of these intermediate stages in the preservation of the history. Therefore other than to conclude that the measurements are sensibly too large by a huge multiple then it becomes fruitless to seek a submerged rectangular plain of any precise scale; be it in the Atlantic or Mediterranean<\/em>.”<\/span><\/p>\n

    However, I am not convinced that the problem with Plato’s numbers is a matter of misunderstanding the units of measurement used. As I pointed out in Joining the Dots<\/em> [p89] “The numbers attributed to the Atlantean military appear to be just as extravagant as Plato\u2019s other figures for time, distance, and area. Now, where months can be substituted for years and khets for stades, soldiers are units in any language and so Plato\u2019s excessive manpower figures cannot be explained away by claiming there had been some confusion over the unit of measurement employed.”<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    My conclusion is that we should be looking at the possible manner in which an alien numerical notation system was misunderstood somewhere along that chain of transmission listed above by Dunbavin. <\/span>For those that claim that Plato concocted the entire Atlantis story, it should be obvious that if he had, he would have offered more credible data, but, apparently in deference to Solon, repeated the numbers recorded by him.<\/span><\/p>\n

    Galanopoulos<\/a> and Bacon<\/a> commenting [263<\/a>.36]<\/sup> on the plain described in Critias 118a-e concluded that Plato had been referring to a second plain, “Next, the plain surrounding the city does not appear to be the same as the one close to the Ancient Metropolis since this lay in the centre of the island at a distance of 50 stades (6 miles) from the sea. Whereas the plain surrounding the City was 3,000 stades (340 miles) and 2,000 stades (227 miles) wide; and so the centre of this plain must have been very much more than six miles from the sea. The attempt to reconcile these statements by suggesting that the Ancient Metropolis was not in the centre of the island but close to the sea in the middle of one of the sides of the island likewise will not work in view of the passage (Critias 113d) which states that the belts of water encircling the metropolis were everywhere equidistant from the centre of the island.”<\/em><\/p>\n

    Jim Allen<\/a>, who supports an Andean location for Atlantis, offers a strong argument against other principal Atlantis candidates by critically examining the plains included in alternative location theories(c)<\/sup>. However, it must be pointed out that Allen had to divide Plato\u2019s dimensions for the plain by two in order to shoehorn it into his chosen location.<\/p>\n

    While I accept that there is evidence that there was flooding on the Altiplano, it took place some thousands of years before the Bronze Age Atlantis described by Plato and certainly long before he wrote \u201cthis is why the sea in that area is <\/em>to this day<\/strong><\/em> impassible to navigation, which is hindered by mud just below the surface, the remains of the sunken island.\u201d<\/em> (Timaeus 25d – Desmond Lee) This is not a description that can be applied to anywhere on the Altiplano during the 1st<\/sup> millennium BC. Apart from that, Plato\u2019s account clearly states that Atlantis was submerged and\u00a0was still\u00a0so\u00a0in his own day,\u00a0making Allen\u2019s critique somewhat redundant.<\/p>\n

    An interesting suggestion, although badly flawed, was made by Jean Deruelle <\/a>who proposed ‘Doggerland<\/a>‘ in the North Sea <\/a>as the location of Atlantis, adding an interesting twist to Plato’s description of the Plain. “<\/em>Deruelle, an engineer and a geologist by profession, offers a hypothesis that is rational, highly precise, and based on his areas of expertise. No other hypothesis than Deruelle’s tackles so credibly the most outlandish elements in Plato’s description of Atlantis: the description of a vast plain, surrounded by a man-made ditch, 180 meters broad and thirty meters deep, large enough to circulate supertankers: it was not a ditch, but a dyke,<\/strong> build over centuries to protect a large part of Doggerland against the slowly rising waters of the North Sea.”<\/em>(d)<\/sup><\/p>\n

    Diaz-Montexano<\/a> maintains that Plato never said that the plain was shaped like a rectangle.<\/p>\n

    The Mediterranean, between Sicily<\/a> and North Africa, has been offered by a number of commentators, such as Alberto Arecchi <\/a>and Alex Hausmann<\/a>, as the location of the Plain of Atlantis. There is evidence of large areas of land having been submerged within the region between Malta<\/a> and the Pelagie Islands<\/a>. I include here a passing reference from Ernle Bradford <\/a>who sailed the region which may be of interest to supporters of a Central Mediterranean Atlantis. When discussing the Egadi Islands <\/a>off the west coast of Sicily he describes Levanzo, the smallest of the group as being \u201conce joined to Sicily, and the island was surrounded by a large fertile plain. Levanzo, in fact, was joined to more than Sicily. Between this western corner of the Sicilian coast and the Cape Bon peninsula in <\/em>Tunisia<\/em> there once lay rich and fertile valleys-perhaps, who knows, long lost Atlantis?\u201d <\/em>[<\/sup>1011<\/sup><\/a>.57]<\/sup><\/p>\n

    The number of different locations that have been proposed for the plain is obviously a reflection of the number of sites suggested for the city of Atlantis. I list the most popular below with the added comment that, at best, only one can be correct while all may be wrong.<\/p>\n

    Plain of Atlantis<\/strong><\/p>\n

    Cuba<\/a> (Norman Frey<\/a>) \u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

    Mauritania (David Edward<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Mesara Plain on Crete (Braymer<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Central Plain of Ireland (Erlingsson<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Sea of Azov<\/a> (Flying Eagle & Whispering Wind)<\/p>\n

    Altiplano of Bolivia<\/a> (Jim Allen)<\/p>\n

    Andalusian Plain (Diaz-Montexano<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    North Sea (Doggerland) (Jean Deruelle<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Plain of Catania, Sicily<\/a><\/p>\n

    Plain of Campidano, Sardinia<\/a> (Giuseppe Mura<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Souss-Massa Plain, Morocco (Michael H\u00fcbner<\/a>) (Mario Vivarez<\/a>)\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

    Greenland (Mario Dantas<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Beni, Bolivia (David Antelo<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Mesopotamia in Argentina (Doug Fisher<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Black Sea (Werner E. Friedrich<\/a>) (George K. Weller<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Plain of Troy (J.D.Brady<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    South of England (E.J. deMeester<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Carthage<\/a> (Pallatino<\/a> & Corbato)<\/p>\n

    Celtic Shelf (Dan Crisp<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Western Plain, Cuba (Andrew Collins<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Portugal (Peter Daughtrey<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Off the coast of Wales (Paul Dunbavin<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Florida (Dennis Brooks<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Atlantic Floor (Michael Jaye<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Baffin Bay, Greenland (Ian Fox<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Between Sicily<\/a> and Malta<\/a> (Axel Hausmann<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Pannonian Plain<\/a>, Hungary+(Ticleanu, Constantin & Nicolescu)<\/p>\n

    Guadalete River Plain (Karl J\u00fcrgen Hepke<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Mouth of the Nile (Rich McQuillen<\/a>) (Robert Graves<\/a><\/span>)
    \n<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

    South China Sea\u00a0Indonesia<\/a>\u00a0(Dhani Irwanto<\/a>) (<\/a>Bill Lauritzen)<\/a><\/p>\n

    Saudi Arabia (Stan Deyo<\/a>)<\/p>\n

    Venezuelan Basin (Caribbean<\/a>) Brad Yoon<\/a> (P.P. Flambas<\/a>) \u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

    Yucatan Peninsula (Mark Carlotto)(b<\/sup>)<\/sup><\/p>\n

     <\/p>\n

    (<\/sup>a<\/sup>) <\/sup>https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20160326200714\/https:\/\/www.atlantis-schoppe.de\/richter.pdf<\/a>
    \n<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

    (b)<\/sup> A Commentary on Plato\u2019s \u201cMyth\u201d of Atlantis \u2013 Before Atlantis<\/a>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

    (c) <\/sup>https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20200707234820\/http:\/\/www.atlantisbolivia.org\/plaincomparison.htm<\/a><\/p>\n

    (d) <\/sup> https:\/\/www.q-mag.org\/the-great-plain-of-atlantis-was-it-in-doggerland.html<\/a><\/p>\n

    (e<\/sup>)<\/sup> Comparison of Plato\u2019s Critias with George K. Weller\u2019s concept of ancient Atlantis and its actual location. \u2013 The Weller Farm (archive.org)<\/a><\/p>\n

    (f<\/sup>)<\/sup> file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Tony\/Downloads\/An_Atlantis_Miscellany.pdf\u00a0<\/a>
    \n<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    The Plain of Atlantis is one of the principal features recorded by Plato in great detail. He describes it being \u201c3000 stades in length and at its midpoint 2000 stades in breath from the coast\u201d (Critias 118a, trans. Lee). The shape of the plain is frequently given as \u2018rectangular\u2019 or \u2018oblong\u2019 and contained an efficient […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[234,339,195,2831,6113,27,44,830,37,3243,1131,53,248,2407,6112,603,5944,72,1143,178,676,2557,6813,54,5050,7408,1016,2250,7407,1146,990,23,101,233,1141,274,1015],"class_list":["post-2194","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-alberto-arecchi","tag-altiplano","tag-andrew-collins","tag-argentina","tag-axel-housmann","tag-black-sea","tag-bolivia","tag-celtic-shelf","tag-cuba","tag-dennis-brooks","tag-diaz-montexano","tag-doggerland","tag-doug-fisher","tag-egadi-islands","tag-ernl-bradford","tag-florida","tag-george-k-weller","tag-greenland","tag-jean-deruelle","tag-jim-allen","tag-khet","tag-majorie-braymer","tag-michael-hubner-2","tag-north-sea","tag-p-p-flambas","tag-paul-daughtrey","tag-paul-dunbavin","tag-plain-of-atlantis","tag-plain-of-troy","tag-robert-graves","tag-sais","tag-sea-of-azov","tag-sicily","tag-tunisia","tag-ulf-erlingsson","tag-ulf-richter","tag-wales"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2194","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2194"}],"version-history":[{"count":26,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2194\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":63852,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2194\/revisions\/63852"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2194"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2194"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atlantipedia.ie\/samples\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2194"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}