An A-Z Guide To The Search For Plato's Atlantis

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    NEWS September 2023

    September 2023. Hi Atlantipedes, At present I am in Sardinia for a short visit. Later we move to Sicily and Malta. The trip is purely vacational. Unfortunately, I am writing this in a dreadful apartment, sitting on a bed, with access to just one useable socket and a small Notebook. Consequently, I possibly will not […]Read More »
  • Joining The Dots

    Joining The Dots

    I have now published my new book, Joining The Dots, which offers a fresh look at the Atlantis mystery. I have addressed the critical questions of when, where and who, using Plato’s own words, tempered with some critical thinking and a modicum of common sense.Read More »

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Access | Sign up for it ADVERTISE HERE “(…) the apparently objective and scientific neutrality of the historian, who looks back and judges what really happened, is a product of his identification with the victor” Àlex Matas i Pons. “The margins of maps: a displaced geography.” • _COVER_ • _NEWS_ • ARTICLES • _PROJECTS_ • AGENDA • _INTERVIEWS_ • _PUBLICATIONS_ • OPINION • FILE ARTICLES » 03-10-2011 | CATALAN UNIVERSAL EMPIRE 27364 The location of Tartessos is unknown. Could it be Tartessos Tortosa? All the important cities known from around the year 1000 a. C (Bronze Age) of the Mediterranean and the Near East have been discovered and excavated. All, except Tartessos, of which, despite the efforts made by the Spanish State for decades, not a trace has appeared. Faced with this mystery, Carles Camp analyzes the issue and suggests that the city of Tartessos could actually be Tortosa. All the important cities known from around the year 1000 a. C (Bronze Age) of the Mediterranean and the Near East have been discovered and excavated. All, except Tartessos, of which, despite the efforts made by the Spanish State for decades, not a trace has appeared. Tartessos was a rich and powerful city, mentioned in the Bible. It was, in the time of King Solomon, a very rich emporium, the target of Phoenician navigators, which flourished at the end of the second millennium BC. Historiography places this city somewhere in the Guadalquivir delta, in western Andalusia, in an area that would go from the city of Seville to the Atlantic. It is in this place that they have searched, without any success, for any evidence of this city, destroyed by the Carthaginians around 600 BC. because it had become too annoying a commercial competitor. So many years of fruitless searching make us wonder if we have really been looking in the right place? In this article we will propose an alternative on the location of Tartessos. At the outset, an important fact must be borne in mind: if that period is known as the Bronze Age, it is precisely to emphasize the importance that this alloy had for the development of those civilizations. Copper, the basic metal of the alloy, had been known to work for many centuries. However, on its own it is too hard to handle, it is soft, heavy and rusts relatively quickly. These drawbacks are solved by making an alloy of 90% copper and 10% tin, which we know as bronze. Although the weight issues are corrected only very slightly, the result is a metal product that is much easier to work with, much more workable, much more resistant to breaking or cracking, and will not rust. Bronze was used to make all the tools both in the field and in the different trades. It had, however, a much more important application from a social, and above all, political point of view. All kinds of weapons were made with bronze: swords, spears, helmets, armour, etc. To equip an army it was essential to have bronze. Without bronze, no king, prince or ruler could have a military force, neither defensive nor offensive, and was completely at the mercy of whoever wanted to attack him. Copper was a relatively abundant, fairly distributed metal that the civilizations of the time had relatively easy access to. It was not the same with tin, since while there were some mines in the Near East and perhaps elsewhere in the Mediterranean, their production was scarce, making tin a rare metal and expensive It was necessary to go and look for him in India,from where it arrived very sparingly or to the British Isles, which were the main and, almost always, only source. Without tin, then, there was no bronze, and if there was no bronze, there was no army, no agriculture, and many other economic activities. This turned tin, during those centuries, into what we now call a strategic material, that is to say, a material whose supply could not fail in any way. Therefore, kings, princes and rulers were willing to pay well for this vital metal. Whoever managed to trade there became someone important, rich and powerful. This is how the Phoenicians grasped it, who began, very soon (around 1000 BC), their expansion towards the south-western Mediterranean, and who, from their base in Carthage, controlled the only maritime access from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic: the Strait of Gibraltar, then called the Columns of Hercules. From the 7th century BC, all the ancient Phoenician colonies and factories in the western Mediterranean came to be controlled by the Carthaginians or Punics, who were also Phoenicians, specifically the inhabitants of an ancient colony located on the present Tunisian coast called Carthage. For the Punics, a competitor who centuries ago had been a commercial partner, a real stone in the shoe, immediately appeared: Tartessos. It was a very powerful Iberian city that also saw the business and began to practice it. In reaction, the Punics blockaded the Straits of Gibraltar, preventing any other vessels from their nation from passing through. A powerful navy and the fact that the strait is only about 14 kilometers wide made their job easier. If any non-Punic ship tried to pass there, no mercy was shown to it or its crew. The Tartessians, however, managed to circumvent the blockade by landing the lake somewhere in the Atlantic of the Peninsula, they say in the Tagus estuary. Upriver, or perhaps from the estuary itself, they brought it by land to Tartessos and, from there, to a Greek colony called Mainaké (the current Vélez–Málaga, not to be confused with the Punic colony Málaka , the current Málaga) located already in the Mediterranean, more or less on the west coast of the current province of Málaga. Escaping the blockade also involved the cooperation of the Greeks, since the Tartessian fleet would be blocked and unable to access the eastern Mediterranean, where the clients were. Let’s remember that the historiography places Tartessos in the area of the Guadalquivir delta, so the only access it would have to the sea would be the Atlantic, to the west of the Columns of Hercules. To bring the lake to its final destination, from the Malaga coast, the Tartessians had to count, necessarily, with the indispensable collaboration of the Greeks and their ships. This theory does not explain, however, how the Tartessians were able to cross such vast territories populated by warlike Celtic nations such as the Lusitanians, the Carpetans or the Vetons, among others, with a commodity as precious and delicious as it was the pond Possibly, we don’t know, they paid to stay out of trouble. Nor does it explain how the Punics allowed the Greeks to found and maintain a colony in an area that they completely dominated and in front of their noses, which, moreover, was destined to make them a pawn in the business of Lake. It is plausible to think that it would have been relatively easy for the powerful Punic fleet to block the port of Mainaké. In any case, the Tartessians were doing well enough for the Punics to feel aggrieved and forced to seek a military solution to the problem. So, first, they conquered three islands that, according to the chronicles that have come down to us, “were in front of Tartessos” and were under his rule or, at least, under his protection. In this way, they tried to put pressure on the rival power. According to historiography, it would be three islands in the Guadalquivir delta, which would allow the enemy city to be completely blocked, which they did not achieve. This theory, from my point of view, presents two problems. To begin with, it would not have been easier and more definitive to destroy the Greek colony of Mainaké, thus preventing the Greeks from helping Tartessos. On the other hand, it is reasonable to think that the Punics militarily maintained three islets of alluvium, with silty and muddy lands in which it is very difficult to build large works of any kind due to the impossibility of making the necessary foundations, subjected, in addition, to suffer flooding in the event of a flood of the river. All this, without counting the problems of supply, both of men and of food and other necessary articles, to maintain a garrison powerful enough to defend them in the event of a more than likely attempt at a Tartessian counterattack. The military seizure of these islets does not, in our opinion, make much sense. In any case, the explained pressure did not have the desired effect and the patience of the Punics ran out. So, around 500 BC, they attacked Tartessos militarily. It has been calculated to be between 530 and 480 BC, although the first date is the most likely. The Punics won the war and destroyed the city, and since then all trace of Tartessos and its civilization has disappeared. Extension of the Kingdom of Tartessos according to classic historiography Where was Tartessos? It is known that it was an Iberian city and civilization, next to a navigable river called Iberus. The efforts made by etymologists to deduce that Betis, the name given to the Guadalquivir in Roman times, comes from Iberus are quite painful and, despite the numerous balances they try, there is no reasoning that justifies this evolution of the first name. The river, however, was also known by the same name as the city: Tartessos. The river, however, came from Celtic Hispania (1). Aristotle explains that the Tartessos river was born in the Pyrenees “from the Pyrenees descend the Istre and the Tartessos, these beyond the columns of Hercules”. Indeed, the Ebro originates in the Cantabrian mountain range, beyond the Strait of Gibraltar (2). It has sometimes been discussed whether the Ebro is a tributary of the Segre or the other way around. Today we accept the latter option. Indeed, the Ebro originates in what was then Celtic Hispania and the Segre originates in the Pyrenees. So, the only navigable river in the Iberian Peninsula that brings together all these characteristics is the Ebro River, but not the Guadalquivir in any way. On the other hand, the Iberian people neighboring Tartessos were the Cempsos, who lived at the foot of the Pyrenees (3), impossible if Tartessos was in the Guadalquivir delta. Tartessos was on the Ligurian Sea (4), which is that part of the Mediterranean between Provence, Languedoc, the Principality of Catalonia and the Balearic Islands. The sea that bathes the coast of Western Andalusia has never been called that. There was a mythical king of Tartessos called Theron or Geron, the one from whom Hercules stole the cows. Probably, the excessive longevity of Geron makes us think that, rather than a single king, it would be a dynasty. Well, be that as it may, Roman sources describe this king as rex Hispaniae citerioris (5). Let’s remember that Hispania Citerior was Tarraconense, and included, more or less, the north-eastern half of the Iberian Peninsula: the current Catalan Countries, Aragon, the region of Murcia, and the entire Ebro valley up to the Cantabrian. In the Mediterranean, the limit was somewhere between the coasts of the current Spanish provinces of Murcia and Almeria. The rest of the Iberian Peninsula was known as Hispania Ulterior , which included present-day Andalusia, where the historiography places Tartessos. I have spoken before of the efforts of the Punics to rid themselves of such a troublesome competitor as Tartessos. As part of their strategy, remember, they conquered three islands in front of the city. The Roman author Servi, in his study of Virgil’s Aeneid, explains that ” Geryones rex fuit Hispaniae,qui ideo trimembris fingitur quia tribus insulis proefuit, quoe adiacent hispaniae: Balearicae majori et minori et Ebusso”. In other words: ” Gerion was a king of Hispania who is represented with three bodies, because he ruled over three islands: Majorca, Menorca and Ibiza ” (6). Well: we know that the Punics invaded Ibiza on 654 BC, about 150 years before the destruction of Tartessos. They probably took control of all the Balearic Islands, although they did not directly occupy Mallorca and Menorca, and yes, instead, Ibiza, which did not make sense, if it was not to use them as a base of operations to pressure the Tartessians and to prevent them from using them as a supply center in support of their fleet, it is a much more plausible explanation than the conquest of three islets at the mouth of the Guadalquivir. From everything we have said so far, it follows that Tartessos could not be located at the mouth of the Guadalquivir. It is therefore necessary to look for an alternative location that is more in line with the information that emerges of the sources. What city do we know, situated near the mouth of a great navigable river called the Iberus, which arose near the Atlantic and crossed the country of the Celts, and through which the British pond could be brought down with relative ease? What city do we know that has three islands with enough entity to be colonized by the Punics not far away, and that, in addition, had as a neighbor a town located at the foot of the Pyrenees? Surely, a name comes to mind for all of us: Tortosa, which, incidentally, has a surprising phonetic similarity with Tartessos. And we are not the first to say so. In 1849, the German theologian Redslob already formulated this hypothesis (7). It should be remembered that , in Roman times, Tortosa was a sea port; that in the Middle Ages the existence of the port of Tortosa is perfectly documented and that this city, which has moved away from the sea in a relatively recent period, had command of the Navy until very recently. It was said that the lake bathed the walls of Tartessos (8). This is explained by the mockery of the blockade that the Punics used to block the Columns of Hercules using the Ebro river, which is navigable with rais shortly after its birth. This navigation is perfectly feasible. Antoni Rubió i Lluch describes how a part of the Navarre Company went to Albania to fight for the rights of Navarre’s infant Lluís d’Evreux, son of Philip III of Navarre and brother of Charles II. No less than an army of 400 men went down the river, from Tudela to Tortosa (9). Moreover, the distance to the Atlantic is quite short, and a few pacts with some Cantabrian or Basque chieftains would have been enough to take, without hindrance, the precious metal to the Mediterranean and from there to the Mediterranean markets oriental,and all with the more than likely collaboration of the Greeks. vit was when the Punics began to pressure Tartessos and attacked the Balearic Islands, despite occupying Ibiza, that the Greeks, allies of the Tartessians, began to found their colonies in the north of the Iberian Peninsula. When Tartessos was destroyed, the Greeks found themselves without any support in the Peninsula and had to use their new settlements to be able to maintain commercial relations in this part of the Mediterranean once their collaborators disappeared. Where does the confusion come from? However, if the arguments presented so far seem so strong against the Andalusian localization thesis, how is it possible that there is so much unanimity in the official historiography when it comes to placing Tartessos in the Guadalquivir delta? Undoubtedly, the error stems from the fact that some of the historians, chroniclers and geographers of the classical Greco-Roman era, who followed each other, confused Tartessos with Gades (present-day Cadiz). Gades was a Punic colony, strategically located to guard the Atlantic route of the lake. The Punic-Tartesian struggles helped to spread the confusion committed by, for example, highly regarded authors such as Herodotus, Aristophanes, Euphorus, and Plato (10) among others, and which became widespread among later scholars. This is confirmed by the Tartessos expert, the German Adolf Schulten. So, when they described the environment where, according to them, Tartessos was located, what they were doing was describing the environment of Gades and, consequently, what they were describing was the Guadalquivir delta and, thus, the error disappeared self feeding When the first scholars talked about Tartessos, it had already disappeared for centuries. There was the memory that it was ‘near the Ocean’, or ‘near the Columns of Hercules’. It is clear that, from Greece, Phenicia (present-day Lebanon) or Egypt, Tartessos, located at the mouth of the Ebro, is relatively close, from their point of view, to the Atlantic Ocean. It is as if from the Mediterranean we say that Hamburg is close to the Baltic, which is true from our geographical point of view, but which may sound strange to a Hamburger, because from this city there is still a long way to the Baltic , as there is a good stretch from Tortosa to the Atlantic. The fact that the Tinto river was called Hiberos in Roman times, based on the comment introduced by Rufius Festus Avienus in his Ora Marítima, has fueled the confusion (11). But the only navigable river in Andalusia is the Guadalquivir, then called Betis. And deriving Betis from Iberus is a real mission impossible. The chroniclers of the classical Greco-Roman period explain that the Iberians were bad navigators. But, of course, when they wrote it had already been a handful of years since the Punics had destroyed Tartessos and with its complete destruction any memory of the abilities of its inhabitants would also have disappeared. So they could not know anything about a possible navy of the Tartessian Iberians. However, the Bible and documents of Egyptian origin speak of the fleet of Tartessos, so it must be assumed that those Iberians had a fleet and that, therefore, more or less, they knew how to sail. To this end, it is also necessary to consider the fact that the Iberian tribe of the Sicans colonized Sicily, a circumstance that could only have been carried out based on knowledge of the art of navigation (12). Another consequence of the incorrect location of the city of Tartessos in the Guadalquivir delta has been the fact of considering that the Turdetans, a nation that was located at that time in eastern Andalusia, were also Iberians. If Tartessos and its surroundings were Iberian, the Turdetans, who were the neighboring people, had to be Iberian: the Iberians of the south. But the only real Iberians have always been what some incorrectly call Northern Iberians, like those who lived in Tartessos, where Tortosa is now, in the middle of the Iberian nation, our ancestors. Carles Camp Barcelona, November 23, 2009 BIBLIOGRAPHY: (1) Adolf Schulten, Tartessos , Centro de Estudios Andaluces, Editorial Renacimiento, Seville, 2006. P. 142-143. (3) Schulten, Op. cit., p. 112-3. Schulten says that he takes it from the journey of a Massaliot navigator from the beginning of the 6th century, which Schulten himself collected in Fontes Hispaniae antiquae (Berlin, Weidmann) and Barcelona (libreria A. Bosch, 1922) and from an author named Dionisi (Dionys. Perieg. ( Geogr. Gr. Min., ed Müller II) v. 337 and s. (4) Schulten, Op. cit., p. 55. Schulten says that he takes it from an author named Estefanos, who relates the antecedent of Tartessos as a “city of the Ligurians”. In a footnote Schulten says “the city must have been on the Ligurian lake”, which he identifies with a place in Andalusia, since Tartessos must be in Andalusia. (5) Schulten, Op. cit., p. 64-5. Adolf Schulten says that he takes it from the author Macrobius, when he describes the war between King Theron or Gerion against Tyre. Schulten concludes that the rex Hispaniae citerioris Theron mentioned by this classical author is the king of Tartessos. (7) Schulten, Op. cit., p. 153. Schulten says he takes it from Redslob, Tartessus (Prog. D. Hamburg, Acad. Gymnasium, 1849). (8) Schulten, Op. cit., p. 131. Schulten takes it from the periple mentioned above. Op. cit., p. 113, Adolf Schulten says he takes it from Aviè 297, Estéf. Biz, Eustth, in Dionys., 357 ” they say that the Tartessos river is full of inhabitants “, in Eforos ( fr. 5, Dopp. ) Escímn., v. 162. (9) Antoni Rubió i Lluch, Navarros and Catalans in Greece in the 14th century. Navarros in Greece. The Catalan Duchy of Athens at the time of its invasion , Barcelona, Imprenta de Jaime Jepús, 1886, reproduction made by Libreía Paris-Valencia, Valencia 1998, p. 31. Rufius Festus Avienus, Ora Marítima , Verses 238-249. Catalan translation by Pere Villalba, Bernat Metge Foundation, Barcelona, 1986. (12) According to Avienus (IV, 379), the river Sicà would be the same as the Romans called Sucro, the current Xúquer. On the other hand, the grammarian Servius (IV-V centuries AD), Ad Aeneida VIII 328 states that the river Sicà would be the Sicoris, the current Segre. Author: Carles Camp ________________________________________ printable version 1. David2 04-03-2021 17:48 By the way, with the tide you can go no more than 10, 20 or 30 km inland and that’s assuming that the final section is really flat. Wow, you already have material to ruminate on for a while. 2. David2 04-03-2021 17:45 @David Escobedo, of course, the trade is to the dry lands of the interior and not to the coast. No, listen, I’m telling you, you better not add anything else. 3. Cerebrino Mandri Mandri 08-24-2020 02:19 From Tortosa, Tartessos, and from Pepe, pipes. 4. David Escobedo 07-31-2019 18:31 @David2 Is this a serious question? Well, to warm up! The fundamental basis of the wealth of the Tartessos was the trade in minerals such as tin, iron, etc. They brought tin to the plateau to sell it obviously. Trade routes were vital to them, and they traded both within the peninsula and beyond. To bring metals to the plateau they mainly used waterways, and the latter were mainly the Guadiana and the Guadalquivir. What part of this exactly gives you doubts? 5. David2 07-30-2019 23:44 @David Escobedo, and why do you want to go with the boat loaded with tin up, towards the center of the Peninsula, and not down, towards the coast? No, you don’t need to add anything else. You better not add anything else. 6. David Escobedo 2018-11-20 19:11 To move boats carrying tin upriver, you need a river that is not only big, but with a strong tide, in order to take advantage of the force of the inland sea. This is very important. Without this being clear, we cannot talk about river navigation and the article continuously talks about the Guadalquivir delta. The Ebro has a delta, but the Guadalquivir does not (and neither does the Tagus). This is a capital detail, very important (and it must be added that it is very basic, EGB level): the Guadalquivir (and the Tagus too) forms an estuary, not a delta. The difference is that the estuary is formed when the sea forcefully enters the river due to the force of the tides, and the delta is formed when the river flows forcefully into the sea depositing sediments. The only navigable and tidal Iberian river is the Guadalquivir. On the other hand, it is well established that the Tartessos river was previously known as Baetis (Tharsis for the Greeks), renamed first by the Arabs as Nahr Qurtuba (river of Córdoba) and then as w?di al-kab?r. Currently we call it the Guadalquivir River. And you don’t need to add anything more guys. 7. Anton Martin 2017-04-18 10:27 8. John2 2017-03-24 16:19 Could it be Mainaké Manacor? 9. David2 02-01-2017 10:24 It should be borne in mind that, although today we consider the columns of Hercules to be in the Strait of Gibraltar, it is not at all clear that in antiquity they identified the same place. Plato also places Atlantis beyond the aforementioned columns and seems to have meant Santorini. Therefore, perhaps the columns referred to another place in the Mediterranean or even to other places throughout History. 10. It was Maki 09-08-2015 15:38 Indeed, the Tartessos number evolved over the centuries to Tort-Osa, which evolved into Tort-Osa Major and Tort-Osa Minor, forming the town divided in two by the Ebro river. Saint Paul, in his encyclical to the Corinthians (Psalm 3:10) already alluded to Tort-Osa Major defending it from the insults propagated by those of Tort-Osa Menor who said that “Tort-Osa Major robs us” and wanted to separate to re-form the new Tartessos free from its neighbors… We will continue to inform 11. Carlos 09-07-2015 17:25 If any of the cities you cite were at the “same” mouth of the river, they would have to be found by zoomed-in satellite photo right now. 1 to 0. Indolesa, I meant lepers, excuse me. 12. Indonesian 09-07-2015 15:55 Dear Carlos, calling the inhabitants of Andalusia 2,500 years ago Andalusians seems ridiculous to me. It reminds me of a collection in El Periodico that was called Catalan Prehistoric Animals and no one wore a hat (when they crossed the border did they become Aragonese?). 13. Carlos 09-07-2015 14:02 Only an Andalusian would think of building a town at the very mouth of a river. If so… 14. I pee, I pee 08-14-2015 13:59 What seemed to me the most “interesting” of the “article” was that of PROJECT IMPERI UNIVERSAL CATALAN which appears in the heading immediately after the date of publication. The USA is shaking! How trembling China! 15. ju 03-27-2015 15:51 _KMS_WEB_BLOG_INAPROPIATE_COMMENT Click here to show it 16. George 03-23-2015 14:47 Tortosa in the time of the Iberians, didn’t the Greeks know it by Tyrichae? What I don’t quite understand is how, if the Greeks knew her by tyrichae, they called her dertosa 17. Joan Padró 12-30-2014 20:40 Brilliant article. Congratulations Carlos Camp. The Spanish comments are painful, they do not provide any evidence and are limited to insulting, disqualifying and mocking the author. 18. Francisco Bueno Oliveros 07-15-2014 12:17 Ladies, there is no doubt about the rigor of this article. And I say rigor, referring to “literary rigor”, not literal. In other words, it is about making a very particular translation of each of the data and authors that this individual author of the humorous article that I have just read cites. Look, it reminds me of a Latin translation (I think I remember it was from the Gallic War, by Caesar, but I’m not sure), anyway, the famous “translation” came to say that “César gave him a wafer a Pompey y esté saltó el puente” and its “LITERAL” translation was, more or less, Caesar arrived at the port of Ostia and Pompey withdrew. Anyway, as a joke it’s not bad, but giving it historical rigor is insane. But, of course, with this peculiar type of “historiography”, both Christopher Columbus and the Triana sailor were, one from Barcelona and the other from Saint Feliu de Guisolls and the emperors Trajan and Adriano were born in Gerona and Lérida respectively, although they used Seville as a summer resort. 19. Xavier 03-06-2014 12:30 He confuses data from Gerion with Argantonio, exposes a part of the Geroneida, as justification, when in that same work he indicates that to reach the vicinity of Tartessos you have to cross the columns of Hercules. He does not quote the words of Herodotus, born almost at the time of the disappearance of Tartessos, but he quotes Aristotle born 120 years later. Not to mention that the Greeks called the Guadalquivir Tharsis and the Romans called the bay of Cadiz Tartessius Sinus. Spain steals from us 20. George 25-10-2011 12:37 Frederic, I don’t know which piece you’re referring to, but I can tell you that when they made an underground aparacemnt in the middle of the city, a piece of wall that was found, they took 4 photos of it and oh… out. In the pile of “things” that must be under there in Tortosa and there they are…. and will be…. since I don’t think there is any interest in taking out and showing anything, unfortunately. 21. Jordi Griera 12-10-2011 06:49 Since childhood I had been very intrigued by Tartessos, I couldn’t say why. Those who believe in transmigration, or those of us who believe in it because we have found evidence of it, explain that similar interests are possibly due to one having lived there in another life. Maybe I was a Tartessí, or Tortosí. That Tortosa is Tartessos makes my heart swell, a kind of “ah, yes”, that has nothing to do with nationalisms, or even with history. What things, right? Thank you Carles Camp! 22. brawl 12-10-2011 00:57 We want to point out here that knowing the original place of Tartessos is of greater significance that it is worth explaining. According to the philosopher of history Alexandre Deulofeu (1903-1978), author of the cyclical theory called the “Mathematics of History”, the civilizations or cultures that travel the planet throughout their existence have up to three cycles of 1,700 years each. Within each cycle of around 1,700 years there is a first phase of around 650 years, called demographic fragmentation, where, according to Deulofeu, true cultural creation takes place, that is, artistic, philosophical and scientific. The second phase, of about 1,050 years, is the one of great unification, where there is no true new creation, but where the previous creation is spread throughout the territory affected by this culture or civilization. Always according to Deulofeu, in the first cycle of civilization, of the three that can exist, the art, philosophy and science of the preceding culture are copied. The second cycle is that of fullness and is where the true personality of that culture is shown. The third cycle repeats the basic features of the other two. Deulofeu explains, for example, that the first cycle of Western European civilization copied from the second cycle of classical Greek and Phoenician civilization. The first cycle of Greek civilization copied from the second cycle of Egyptian civilization. And the first cycle of the Egyptian civilization copied from the second cycle of the Sumerian civilization. Deulofeu states that the second cycle of Western European civilization was born between the Empordà and Rosselló, specifically in the monastery of Sant Pere de Roda, from where Romanesque radiated towards the surrounding territories, evolving towards Gothic. But Deulofeu also states that the first cycle of this same civilization was born in Tartessos, about 1,700 years earlier than the previous one, also taking into account a variation in time due to its geographical displacement. Deulofeu never questioned the location of Tartessos estalberta in the Guadalquivir as Carles Camp does in the documentation expressed here. If it is true that Tartessos is Tortosa, then also the first cycle of Western European civilization was born in the regions of the current Principality, all copying the art, philosophy and science of the previous Greek and Phoenician civilizations. This affects the distance between the two original nuclei of the two consecutive cycles of civilization. On the assumption that Tartessos was Tortosa, we could establish a hypothesis according to which, if Humanity continues to exist some 1,700 years after the birth of the Romanesque, and the inertia of the “Mathematics of History” produced until now continues, then what will be the original nucleus of the third cycle of Western European civilization will be found at an equivalent distance between Tortosa and Sant Pere de Roda,but in a direction further north and east of Sant Pere de Roda. If we are not mistaken, roughly towards present-day Marseille, in present-day Occitania, while repeating the art, philosophy and science of the two preceding cycles. Our obligation, and that of our descendants, will be to help our planet continue to live until then and allow these descendants to see these events that we have predicted, or also to fulfill the great claim of Alexandre Deulofeu, expressed in his book “Catalunya and future Europe” (his first book published in 1934, and which he republished in the last place in 1978) consisting in the creation of the World Confederation of Free Peoples, the culmination of the planetary political work that would make it possible to end all wars and achieve the much-desired world peace. Many thanks for allowing our expression on this blog. brawl 23. Frederic 10-10-2011 22:15 In 2007, a piece of wall was found in Tortosa, which they attributed to the ancient and also undiscovered city of Hibera. I don’t know how it all ended, but it would be interesting to propose to the Rovira i Virgili University to continue excavating in Tortosa to find either Hibera or Tartessos. 24. Francis 05-10-2011 15:14 Very interesting! Comments for this article are now closed. EDITORIAL When documents and evidence do not change in the face of ridicule or threats The Institut Nova Història is once again publishing an editorial by En Jordi Bilbeny, which is still very much alive today. The author dedicates it to the slanderers of ‘Sàpiens’. » 35181 ACHIEVED€2200 OF€8000 18 days left Learn more Recently published videos : Interview of Jordi Bilbeny about Papasseit on Espluga TV Catalonia and the Mediterranean SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEWSLETTER Subscribe to our newsletter DID YOU KNOW…? Did you know that Leonardo da Vinci’s coat of arms is the Catalan coat of arms? 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